a big rant

Discuss musical topics that are not directly 808 State related.

Moderators: Ancodia, Pob, markus, nickking

a big rant

Postby Rodders » 14 Aug 2005 12:22

hi all

is it just me or has dance & electronic music gone completely up the wall?? maybe its because im getting older and the scene has been around for a while now, but i genuinely think there is nobody making decent dance music these days. apart from a few bits here and there, i haven't heard anything to excite me, anything that hasn't been done already, anything that's actually made me want to go to a club and enjoy it loud. i feel everybody who i used to love & respect are just totally resting on their laurels, every release being worse than the last. its happened to them all. chemical brothers, prodigy, orbital (RIP), underworld, daft punk, junkie xl. for a while i thought the plump dj's and the breaks scene was doing something different, and now that has disappeared up its arse.
i've talked about this to mates who are all in agreement. ultimately we put it down to one thing: money. money. money. the root of everything that is evil about dance music. for every album & tour that brings in the bucks, that buys a new piece of studio gear, or a big house, flash car, drugs, hookers, whatever - the quality of the music goes downhill. it's bound to happen. what inspiration could you possibly have to write music that moves arses and creates an energy, when you're surrounded by everything you could want? when your inspiration is to fulfill a recording contract, you are f'd before you start.
it makes me cry. when i hear the same guys who made me lose it to "it doesn't matter", "chemical beats", "loops of fury" put out something just so bloody awful as push the button. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?? WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?? F*** YOU, YOU COMFY T**TS!! how dare they stand on stage with a backdrop that says "HOLD TIGHT LONDON" like they're gonna kick out something mindblowing, and then put out the most insipid souless horrible shite? true story - i took an E about half an hour before the chems came on stage and didn't come up until AFTER they'd finished about 2 hours later - i'm convinced their music was holding me back.
considering we are in august, i have only bought 3 dance CD's this year (not counting back catalogue stuff). dave clarke - world service 2 (OK for what it is, but only about 4 good tracks out of 40). plump dj's - saturday night lotion (dire - possibly 2 OK tracks, the rest just nasty). sasha - fundacion NYC (actually quite good - i am really liking sasha's attitude to mixing and trying to do something different).

am i missing something? are there people making music that gives you that buzz, that feeling, just pure honest good electronic music? am i looking in the wrong place? can anyone recommend anything at all that they've heard this year that's made them go "(sharp intake of breath) jesus christ that's AWESOME!" ?? am i really turning into the cliche of "music was better in my day" type attitude already, at 31? man that's scary.

big love

rodders
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Postby nickking » 15 Aug 2005 14:31

Nope, you're not alone in that respect... And, I'm 34... :P

The only artist that has genuinely released a decent album recently (apart from Gerald, which is an album I still love, even though it's not innovative) is by Ulrich Schnauss (a chill-out type album), and even that was released a couple of years ago - only discovered it this year.

I still like the recent albums by both Bent and Lemon Jelly, although I wouldn't have said that they were pushing the boundaries... Push The Button, as you've already stated, is just a band treading water (I've since grown to like Galvanise the track, but the album as a whole doesn't gain repeated plays), and as for that Prodigy album - WTF? Maybe that's why they're releasing the Greatest Hits album, as commercially speaking, it didn't do too well (I wonder why - yes, because it was crap)!

Ah well, hopefully someone out there will release a decent album... :-?
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Postby Souflex » 16 Aug 2005 09:30

I'm 31 too and sometimes feel like 61 when it comes to trying to find a crackin wee album to tickle the old taste buds. f**k the Chems, never liked them, they fart and stick a bossonova behind it and everyone (in the britpop world) loves it.

Building boxes around our lives
Compartments for each and every feeling
Freedom lost with our innocence
Forgoten long ago

its all to labeled prepacked and put into a box before it even gets the chance to grow naturally these days.
Everybody is looking for something new, when it does come you can be sure there is already mobile phone tune for it, mobile phone cover for it and you can buy it for 95p from Ipod. Infact all toy stores would stock a toy that humms the bloody tune!

In that kind of climate how could we ever expect anythin to happen such as a movement like punk, acid house or any other you care to think of.

These days I concentrate on my life/future/work and music (which is actually my passion) plays second fiddle to everything else.

Even my brother who is 24 says there nout out there worth listening to in the dancce/techno/whatever world. thats coming from the new school!

For what is was worth...
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our music

Postby newbuild » 16 Aug 2005 19:36

squarepusher venus no. 17 released july 2004 and he played bass in july 2003 and april 2004 in los angeles-i had the pleasure to hear and see him...

luke vibert lover's acid released march 2005 and he opened for squarepusher in july 2003 in los angeles-and for plaid in november 2003, also in los angeles...all the while yoseph and spokes were released on warp records...

autechre untilted released april 2005 and they did a live set may 2005 in los angeles...with snd opening...

i just got in the mail yesterday the afx/lfo ep on warp records...

a guy called gerald has a new single and album out soon...as nick noted...

i disagree with the statement that there is no quality e music as of current...
on the contrary-i believe that some of the best is happening at this time... i am 23 years old and i live in san diego, california...i have no expectations like soulflex rants on about...i am pleased when i have been fortunate enough to hear something live in my neck of the woods...

is it the older generation can't relate to the current, or i can't...?
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Postby Pob » 16 Aug 2005 21:20

I'm maybe too old now at 30.

But newbuild has just highlighted something to me that has got me all of a quiver.

Who???????? I've never heard of most of them (Autechre, GCG and Squarepusher, yeah. The rest? No!)

Maybe there is quality stuff out there. We just don't have Stu Allen and 808 playing them on the radio anymore. As Rodders points out - with chart (read mainstream) success there comes record company deadlines and creativity gets diluted. I don't have time to peruse record shops and try out new stuff.

Maybe I need to listen to some Internet e-music Radio Stations while I work - anyone know any good ones?
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Postby Souflex » 17 Aug 2005 10:16

newbuild thats the second time you are a cheeky c*** to me and I hope its your last. to be honest son while you were watchin Sesame street i was moshin it to Dj's you have never heard of. you think cause you mention some 'cool' dj's you speak the language of street, but believe me from where i'm sittin in AMSTERDAM its very clear you aint got a f***ing clue.

stop rattelin of dj's and acts who are labelled as alternative and cool to me kiddo, I know who they are and I know they are good but that was not my point. it was more about a movement and a feeling which died a long time ago when you were in your f***in pj's.

next time you could show a bit respect to someone who was actually tearin it up to NEWBUILD!
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Souflex set to star?

Postby Ancodia » 17 Aug 2005 13:28

Apparently Souflex is set to replace Walter Matthau in the third part of the 'Grumpy Old Men' trilogy - 'Grumpy Ol' C***s!'. :x

You'll have change your profile and drop the reformed tag.

J :wink:
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Postby Souflex » 17 Aug 2005 17:51

Alright John,

Do me a favour mate...take me and my name out of the 808 state forum altogether. Take my profile of and anything else that has my name on it that you can delete.

I asked Markus to do this a while ago but he said "now now don't rush into that" but I am telling you something John, I USED to be an 808 State fan but now....I just aint interested in secret MP3 releases for the fans and Massey givin it large with the guitar and some geezer bashin the drums in the back, all the while i'm thinkin to myself what a lot of pish this is. And I certainly aint interested in talking to smart c*** form San Diego who are 23 and bla f***in bla bla....

To many politicaly correct muppets and f***in trainspotters for me to feel comfortable on this site so I honestly do not want ANYTHING to do with it.

And that includes Mr reformed or whatever...

G
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Postby Souflex » 17 Aug 2005 19:45

http://www.g4-online.co.uk/gallery/13.jpg

See what i mean...Markus you have been found out :P :P :P
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Postby Ancodia » 17 Aug 2005 20:05

That's why Markus has been so busy, dodgy cover versions of Bohemian Rhapsody et al.. :wink:

Have to admit I do agree with a lot of your comments Gaz, but we can only learn about music at our own pace. At twelve, I was glad to be hearing something different, it was only 'cause I got off my own ass that I learned of house music. It was hardly prominent in Ireland, all we've managed to produce in those years was Punk and Celtic Rock. And in all reality, very little has changed, sure we have a couple of reasonable clubs now. But there's no culture, it's all commercial. No love of the music, it's just the current flavour that you go out and get pissed to or off your face to.

J
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Postby Pob » 18 Aug 2005 12:12

Souflex,

There is an easy way for you have nothing more to do with this forum.

STOP POSTING TO IT.

Easy!
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Postby Rodders » 18 Aug 2005 22:39

wow, i know i wanted a response from my post but this has gone a bit off-topic..

nick, i agree, ulrich schnauss "in a strangely isolated place" is a great album, he's certainly got his own sound. gotta hold my hands up here though, apart from FX and of course voodoo ray, i've never listened to any gerald.. any particular album i should try??

i used to be into the whole warp / afx / ae stuff in the early 90's but again, there's not much that grabs the attention now. i don't think it's just the music, it's the whole way the artists are presented, marketed, how they play live.. i've only seen autechre live once, albeit in a small venue, and they played the entire set in complete darkness, almost with their backs to the crowd. entertaining?? not in the slightest. there would have been no difference if i'd have just put on a cd and listened to it with the lights out. except i was about twenty quid lighter.

i think my whole issue is that there is no "new guard". no truly innovative act, who make great music, and more than that, are just interesting, worth following, do interesting things and are worth going to see live. i bought the mylo album last year, and reading the quotes from various mags on the front i thought i'd found the holy grail. man, was i wrong. "best dance album of the year". dance?? oh dear god.

and its interesting that the posts (the relevant ones at least :) reveal that others of my age think the same, but the younger guys are more optimistic. to quote newbuild "i have no expectations.." well you should!!! these guys are earning more money than you because they KNOW you don't have expectations, so they can put out ANYTHING and it will sell.. here's a thing to try. please take this in the spirit it's meant but drop a couple of pills, listen to the prodigy "experience", altern 8 "full on mask hysteria", orbital "brown album", FSOL "accelerator" and of course 808 "ninety" and then tell me that quality e music is still being made. read everything you can about all these guys as well as the klf and the shamen, about their attitudes towards the music biz, about how they managed to be hugely successful without compromising one bit, or get dropped by their label because they didn't compromise, about the live gigs they put on, and then tell me that there are any truly interesting electronic bands around today.

in my last post i asked for any recommendations, for anything that has really amazed people this past year, and there have been a handful of suggestions. i think it's because there isn't anything (or people aren't that bothered). but i bet we've all still spent tens / hundreds (thousands, nick? :D on tunes this year. i just think it's time to start asking why.

if anyone has actually read this far, cheers!

BTW souflex if you are still here, that picture made me laugh out loud! sorry markus..
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Postby nickking » 18 Aug 2005 22:50

Rodders wrote:wow, i know i wanted a response from my post but this has gone a bit off-topic..

nick, i agree, ulrich schnauss "in a strangely isolated place" is a great album, he's certainly got his own sound. gotta hold my hands up here though, apart from FX and of course voodoo ray, i've never listened to any gerald.. any particular album i should try??


Best Gerald album to try for is 'Hot Lemonade' (which he's just about to reissue later on this year) and 'The John Peel Sessions' CD is also very good (especially 'Emotions Electric'). Unless you like drum'n'bass, then both '28 Gun Bad Boy' and 'Black Secret Technology' (also due to be reissued later on this year) might not necessarily appeal. His latest 'To All Things What You Need' is very nice (although some have criticised it for not being innovative enough), and the new Sugoi 12" (due out next month) is currently on constant rotation in my house - very nice! :D

But, yeah, no real hard hitters, although the AFX 'Analord' series of 12" singles are very pleasant (only analogue equipment used), and the recent Autechre album "Untilted" isn't that bad... I'm currently looking forward to Board Of Canada's new offering (due October, apparently) - if it's anyhting like "Music Has The Right To Children", then it should be very nice and ambient, and also the Orb's "Orbsessions" compilation of unreleased material - also out in October.

BTW, if you want a nice pop-dance record, check out Mylo vs The Miami Sound Machine's "Doctor Pressure" - due out early September. Originally mixed by a couple of mates of mine, it's been rejigged by Mylo himself - very entertaining! 8)
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bwian...they call him bwian

Postby newbuild » 19 Aug 2005 01:11

yes i have heard those records, rodders-some of them i love...i have read through the klf book on how to have a number one hit-very entertaining!
also the other stories surrounding their personas-but it is too close to rock stardom (infame) for me....although i know i like what they did!!!

for me a performance is about the music
i need no visual entertainment-just sound:)

a dancefloor and a decent sounding room/p.a. system and l is all i need;)

i think the warp acts are all getting better all the time
i think its fair to expect from them a constant change.

every record nick recommended is on my list, too!!!
i can't wait for 28 gun bad boy and black secret tecnology!!!

gerald stated that the first ever jungle lp came out on his own label!!!
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Postby Mark » 19 Aug 2005 20:36

There are a very few good points in this discussion, and I agree on the side that money seems to be the root of the slide dance music has seen over the last few years.

I agree that the Chemicals are on the way down, although they can still whack out the odd quality tune. I actually don't mind the new Prodigy album although it certainly doesn't touch thier previous work. Orbital's Blue album was dissapointing. Aphex seems to be in a slump and The Orb have totally lost it. The great bands that made the era have all but dried up (Orbital, Underworld, Altern8, Shamen, KLF etc) and to be brutally honest, I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we will ever see a new 808 album. Purely because of licensing and money.

There are a lot of decent acts still around and although the charts seem full of shitty hardcore compilations and cheesy 80's remakes, we need to look on the positive side. Although the big guns are gone I really don't think the scene will ever die and whilst there are no new 808 State's or Orbital's kicking around at the moment a new force will arrive sooner or later.

For me it was all about feeling and the way you would get a shiver up your spine when In Yer Face kicked in or chilling out to Pacific on a comedown, nowadays it seems that comercially, its how much money will this tune make, and gone are the videos of Aphex quality and FSOL's weird computerised worlds to be replaced with scantily clad women thrusting themselves to the latest pile of cheese that some bedroom DJ has nicked from an old 80's track because they're not clever enough to invent something new.

Dance music as we know it will rise again and although it seems bleak at the moment (having to feed on the scraps such as Mylo and Deep Dish! - the only two albums I've bought recently! - and yes I agree the Mylo album is nothing special, Nick that new track is dreadful!) I feel that things will come good and we'll see a revival, but I do think realisticly its some way off.

I'm 28 - relatively young to some of you fogeys!!! and I reckon things are going to improve we just need to sit tight and hold on, but yes to go back to Rodders' original posting I agree mate things are in a bit of a state at the moment.
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