why another best of????????????????????

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why another best of????????????????????

Postby PeteZarustica » 30 Aug 2005 01:38

Why does NewOrder keep releasing best-ofs every now and then?
Really, who needs another compilation after international, best of, rest of, substance and the retro fiasco? what do you all think about it?

all the best
Pete
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Postby dee3 » 30 Aug 2005 10:45

Hi Pete (and the rest of ya)!
Good question, actually!
But it's probably only Warner's marketing department that can truly answer on that one!

Personally, (and eventhough I'm a big fan of NO) I think it's utterly pointless!
Of course, unless you're a complete newbie or completist... :wink:

Then I'd rather see New Order - Best Remixes getting a proper release
(or at least get the rights squared away, so it get DL'ed via iTunes globally -
'n' not just being accessable for iTunes-users in the U.S. and U.K.).
And even on this one, one can discuss how important that release is, too!

But I am however looking forward to the release of their videos on DVD next month! :D

That's just my humble opinion - but again, and as Pete asks: what do you all think about it?

Don
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Postby nickking » 30 Aug 2005 13:11

It's primary aim is not aimed at fans, as such, but for those casual listeners who've heard one or two New Order tracks and wants to pick up a collection.

Releasing another collection actually gets the product onto the record shop shelves (at least for the short time), as many record shops out there probably don't have a copy of either International or The Best Of.

Of course, it's the record company and making money that are the primary concern, but if it gets more people into New Order, then I'm not complaining! :P

I guess for the completists out there, if they live up to their promise of putting out the rare 7" edits, then it'll satisfy them, rather than rehashing all of the 12" mixes yet again... It would be better (and make a lot more fans buy it), if they included a 3rd limited CD with unreleased tracks/mixes, but that's record companies for you - they'll probably do that after the next album (possibly due out next year?) for yet another compilation... :wink:

Personally, I'm looking forward to the 'Item' double DVD (with the videos and the 'New Order Story' documentary on it)... I'll probably buy the singles collection, but only because I've got all their other albums... :P

As for proposed 3x 7" singles, 2xCD singles and 1xDVD single for "Waiting For The Sirens Call"... :-? And "Turn" is the final track on the Singles compilation, so I'd guess that they'll probably release that one as a single too...

8)
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Postby Mark » 30 Aug 2005 20:48

To be honest, I'm not a major New Order fan, but as Nick points out, a casual listener, my mate really likes them and I've been meaning to borrow his collection to make my own 'best of' but I'll now probably get this new collection, saves me the hassle, and I can always add on any others.

So I suppose its worth releasing best ofs once every so often. 808:88:08 in the offing then point taken?
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Postby dee3 » 31 Aug 2005 00:06

Point noted Nick & Mark!
And to support your postings, I found this (part of an) article, where Kevin Gore from Rhino Records gets interviewed about compilations (planked off of http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... sthits.ap/):
"...At the end of the day, there's a larger audience that will buy a greatest-hits collection than might buy the individual albums just because they've chosen not to buy the original albums," Gore said.

"Let's say there's two hit songs on a record from five years ago, and then there's another two hit songs from a record that's three years ago," he said. "You have a greater opportunity to bring in a larger audience because you're putting all the hits in one place.""

For the record (and no pun intended!):
1. Keeping NO on the record-shelves IS a very good thing, IMHO
2. If you want to jump on the NO-bandwagon and own zip of NO-stuff (or close to, anyway), like Mark appearantly (no offense!), the soon to be released "Singles" is a good thing as an entry-point!
3. "Yes", Nick, record-companies have to make money (God knows, they've been hard up for it as of late!) And releasing "Greatest Hits"-comps is a right-here-and-now cash-cow for the companies!
4. I have no problems with comps; but when we're talking about more or less merely repackaging the same comp for the third or fourth time as in this case, then I (more or less) mentally throw a fuse. So it's actually the marketing-mechanisms, or rather ploys, behind that kinda pisses me off.

And releasing "Singles" right on the heels of "Waiting For The Sirens' Call" is an example of piss-poor timing from Warner Bros., if you ask me!
I really dunno if WFTSC's sales are currently nose-diving on the major markets for the time being, but "Singles" will put the last nail in that coffin...

Being a decrepit ol' fart that just turned 40 over a week a ago, I've been tagging along with NO since day 1 (well, almost...), so "hey!", I might be biased, when it comes to discussing the necessity of (another) NO-comp! :wink:

But during their career, the lables that NO have been affiliated with have been churning out some kind of "Greatest" with 'em every 4.8 years (on an average).

The math here is based on the 5 comps released previously. And I haven't even included the on-line retailed "Best Remixes"! (whoops, sorry 'bout that!)

While writing this, the band that comes to mind that has been re-hashed on a similar basis is E.L.O. (errr, no artistic comparison, BTW)! :)
FYI, the reason why E.L.O. pops into my mind is because their (re-re-re-)released Greatest is getting heavily marketed here in Denmark for the time being! (F***ing sad, huh?)

I'm probably going to draw some flak on this one in some weird way, but in comparison, PSB have been active now for 20 years, and they've only gotten released two greatest hits, whereas eventhough "PopArt" is a re-ordered and remastered re-hash of "Discography", it had added on the singles that were released after "Discography" (plus there was a limited 3rd CD with some select 12" versions for the record-buying Melvins, too).
8)

IMHO, "Substance" was/is an excellent comp, and maybe what (now) Warner Bros. should have done was:
A. kept "Substance" in print and push the marketing on it (say every 4.8 years) :wink:
B. lassoed all of the subsequent singles together and maybe have released (hrmmm - lame title but WTF...) "Substance 2". Kinda the same thing Mute did with Depeche Mode's "The Singles..." (yeah-yeah, I know that "The Singles 81>85" is a repackaging with some added tracks...)
C. as you more or less suggested, Nick, slap on a limited 3rd limited CD with unreleased tracks/mixes. (That'd probably have swayed me in some way...!) :D
But to quote you, Nick: "That's record companies for you...".

BTW, don't worry, Nick, if the rare 7" edits don't get released with NO's next album, they'll probably show up in 4.8 years time with the next NO-greatest comp!

But let's wind things back a little bit - Pete asked in other words in his posting, if "Singles" is necessary.
IMHO, it's a cross of "Substance", "The Best of New Order", "International" and the ""Retro"-box with some added tracks (mostly the singles from "Get Ready" and "Waiting For The Sirens' Call").
Therefore, it's more or less utterly pointless!
Unless you don't own any of the aforementioned and/or are a casual listener.

And Mark, (if and) when "808:88:08" goes on the block, I'll be there at the customer side of the cash-register, dude!
But "dimes for doughnuts", it'll be a re-hash of "808:88:98" with an extra CD (with the exotic stuff, hopefully).

But at least, we won't have to wait 4.8 years on "808:88:08", if it gets released in '08. :D

'later,
D.
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Postby nickking » 31 Aug 2005 02:26

dee3 wrote:Being a decrepit ol' fart that just turned 40 over a week a ago, I've been tagging along with NO since day 1 (well, almost...), so "hey!", I might be biased, when it comes to discussing the necessity of (another) NO-comp! :wink:


You're not the only one, although I've probably only been following them since around 1987... :)

dee3 wrote:I'm probably going to draw some flak on this one in some weird way, but in comparison, PSB have been active now for 20 years, and they've only gotten released two greatest hits, whereas eventhough "PopArt" is a re-ordered and remastered re-hash of "Discography", it had added on the singles that were released after "Discography" (plus there was a limited 3rd CD with some select 12" versions for the record-buying Melvins, too).
8)


Nope, I agree with you on that one - PopArt was a good buy... The New Order one only promises the prospects of single edits (which I can honestly say I don't really mind one way or another about exclusive edits)... But I do hope they keep up the promise of putting "Run2" on there... (fat chance, though, as it'll probably be the album version, just like the mislabelled "Best Of")! :P

dee3 wrote:BTW, don't worry, Nick, if the rare 7" edits don't get released with NO's next album, they'll probably show up in 4.8 years time with the next NO-greatest comp!


Make that just after the next album (i.e. the one due out in 2006 - that they've already completed 7 songs for)... :P


dee3 wrote:And Mark, (if and) when "808:88:08" goes on the block, I'll be there at the customer side of the cash-register, dude!
But "dimes for doughnuts", it'll be a re-hash of "808:88:98" with an extra CD (with the exotic stuff, hopefully).


Yup, I'd still buy it, even though it would definitely be a rehash (it would have to be ZTT only singles, and they've already been released on 88:98). Bung in a live album/rare tracks as an extra (limited) CD and sell for a quid or two more than the usual price for an album, and it would appeal to most people on here! :D

BTW, if you think the new New Order compilation is a complete waste of time, just take a look at the new Orbital compilation - due out in a couple of weeks (with absolutely no involvement of the band/fans):

Image

1. Moebius
2. Chime
3. Belfast
4. Halcyon
5. Nothing Left
6. Frenetic
7. Farenheit 303
8. Box Pt. 2
9. Philosophy By Numbers
10. Oi
11. Doctor

What a complete and utter waste of time the above is - doesn't even have absolutely anything to offer (bar Chime, Halcyon, Belfast and Doctor) to even the most casual of fans or hardcore fans alike... I think I could have picked a better tracklisting by using a compass and a list of Orbital tracks whilst blindfolded! :P And don't get me started on the crap cover... :x
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Postby nickking » 31 Aug 2005 02:40

Oh yeah, it seems to be the year for Greatest Hits albums - expect ones from The Prodigy (at least there's going to be a second disc of remixes/b-sides with this one), Leftfield (again, some rare tracks on that one, despite the fact they've only released two albums), and Faithless (already released, although Insmonia will be released as a remixed single later on in the year).

:P

On a PSB-related note, the new "Battleship Potemkin" soundtrack sounds particularly good (from the tracks I've heard off it so far) - out next Monday. :)
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Postby dee3 » 31 Aug 2005 11:24

nickking wrote:You're not the only one, although I've probably only been following them since around 1987... :)

And thats when you bought "Substance", right? :wink:
LOL! Sorry Nick, but that one was just too good to pass on by! :D

nickking wrote:... But I do hope they keep up the promise of putting "Run2" on there... (fat chance, though, as it'll probably be the album version, just like the mislabelled "Best Of")! :P

To be honest, I too hope for the potential buyers of "Singles" that "Run2" is on the comp; it'd be close to a crime, if it wasn't!

nickking wrote:Yup, I'd still buy it, even though it would definitely be a rehash (it would have to be ZTT only singles, and they've already been released on 88:98). Bung in a live album/rare tracks as an extra (limited) CD and sell for a quid or two more than the usual price for an album, and it would appeal to most people on here! :D

Well, as you being one of the overall moderators of this forum, then you know as well as me
that this was more or less a topic in the 808 State section;
maybe we should consider rekindeling that topic...:P

nickking wrote:BTW, if you think the new New Order compilation is a complete waste of time, just take a look at the new Orbital compilation - due out in a couple of weeks (with absolutely no involvement of the band/fans):

Image

1. Moebius
2. Chime
3. Belfast
4. Halcyon
5. Nothing Left
6. Frenetic
7. Farenheit 303
8. Box Pt. 2
9. Philosophy By Numbers
10. Oi
11. Doctor

What a complete and utter waste of time the above is - doesn't even have absolutely anything to offer (bar Chime, Halcyon, Belfast and Doctor) to even the most casual of fans or hardcore fans alike... I think I could have picked a better tracklisting by using a compass and a list of Orbital tracks whilst blindfolded! :P And don't get me started on the crap cover... :x

What?!
That one flew under my radar...!
But as you point out, it hasn't got anything to offer!
And BTW, I wasn't too impressed with "Works...", either!
"...a better tracklisting by using a compass and a list of Orbital tracks whilst blindfolded!" Nice one, Nick! :P
Errr, how can the coming Orbital-comp's cover be crappier than "Works..." - this I gotta see! :D
On final note, since Jeff Mills released "Metropolis", I've sorta been a sucker for those kind of releases,
so I'm looking forward to PSB's "Battleship Potemkin", which on print sounds exciting.
Your quick review has only enhanced my expectations...!

On a final note, I'm really looking forward to some of AGCG's re-releases and (especially) Jeff Mills' remix of "Voodoo Ray"!
(And: "No", I'm not trying to suck up to you, Nick!) :wink:
'later people!
Don
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Postby nickking » 31 Aug 2005 12:52

dee3 wrote:
nickking wrote:You're not the only one, although I've probably only been following them since around 1987... :)

And thats when you bought "Substance", right? :wink:
LOL! Sorry Nick, but that one was just too good to pass on by! :D


LOL - you're probably right, actually! :D

dee3 wrote:
nickking wrote:... But I do hope they keep up the promise of putting "Run2" on there... (fat chance, though, as it'll probably be the album version, just like the mislabelled "Best Of")! :P

To be honest, I too hope for the potential buyers of "Singles" that "Run2" is on the comp; it'd be close to a crime, if it wasn't!


Yup, fingers crossed... I've actually taken stock of a 3-track promo cassette of "Run" (bought via ebay) - would love to hear it on CD someday, but apparently they lost the masters to the remix... :( Surely they could ask Scott Litt?? :wink:

dee3 wrote:
nickking wrote:Yup, I'd still buy it, even though it would definitely be a rehash (it would have to be ZTT only singles, and they've already been released on 88:98). Bung in a live album/rare tracks as an extra (limited) CD and sell for a quid or two more than the usual price for an album, and it would appeal to most people on here! :D

Well, as you being one of the overall moderators of this forum, then you know as well as me
that this was more or less a topic in the 808 State section;
maybe we should consider rekindeling that topic...:P


Sounds good! Maybe there'll be a compilation tied in with the ZTT reissues due out next year?

dee3 wrote:
nickking wrote:BTW, if you think the new New Order compilation is a complete waste of time, just take a look at the new Orbital compilation - due out in a couple of weeks (with absolutely no involvement of the band/fans):

Image

1. Moebius
2. Chime
3. Belfast
4. Halcyon
5. Nothing Left
6. Frenetic
7. Farenheit 303
8. Box Pt. 2
9. Philosophy By Numbers
10. Oi
11. Doctor

What a complete and utter waste of time the above is - doesn't even have absolutely anything to offer (bar Chime, Halcyon, Belfast and Doctor) to even the most casual of fans or hardcore fans alike... I think I could have picked a better tracklisting by using a compass and a list of Orbital tracks whilst blindfolded! :P And don't get me started on the crap cover... :x

What?!
That one flew under my radar...!
But as you point out, it hasn't got anything to offer!
And BTW, I wasn't too impressed with "Works...", either!
"...a better tracklisting by using a compass and a list of Orbital tracks whilst blindfolded!" Nice one, Nick! :P
Errr, how can the coming Orbital-comp's cover be crappier than "Works..." - this I gotta see! :D
On final note, since Jeff Mills released "Metropolis", I've sorta been a sucker for those kind of releases,
so I'm looking forward to PSB's "Battleship Potemkin", which on print sounds exciting.
Your quick review has only enhanced my expectations...!

On a final note, I'm really looking forward to some of AGCG's re-releases and (especially) Jeff Mills' remix of "Voodoo Ray"!
(And: "No", I'm not trying to suck up to you, Nick!) :wink:
'later people!
Don


Yeah, I'm refusing to buy the Orbital compilation, purely on the basis that the tracklisting is rubbish... Work, at least, had some edits on it, I suppose (again, if you're into that sort of thing - I guess it saves on buying 7" singles...)... Ah well, maybe they'll release a compilation of remixes/b-sides and/or live albums in the future, and this time hopefully with the band's and/or fan's involvement...

On the Gerald front, yeah, I'm also looking forward to the GCG reissues, including the Jeff Mills mix - really must ask Gerald more about that one! Hopefully, when I see him in just over a week's time (he's doing two gigs in Shoreditch - first one is an Acid DJ night with Luke Vibert and Baby Ford, and the second one is a live laptop/DJ set to promote the Sugoi releases), I'll ask him more about the up and coming releases. "Flo-ride", btw, is excellent! :D

BTW, on the subject of Gerald, "Man In Danger" (the second release) will be an updated drum'n'bass mix of the b-side to the "Strangest Changes" promo "Danger" (featuring David Simpson - Gerald's brother - on vocals), and there'll probably be a 12" release of "Anything" (featuring a brand new remix as well as the original) - tune! :D

Oh, and on the subject of new releases, I'm also looking forward to the new Toolshed album (Graham Massey's band) - it'll be a double-vinyl release on Twisted Nerve "due out by the end of the year" (according to Twisted Nerve). I'll definitely be catching them live (when they play venues in the UK - probably Manchester), as I still haven't seen them yet! :)
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Postby Strunz » 31 Aug 2005 14:14

OK, so this should probably exist on the NOOL forum instead of this one, but I'm here, and I completely agree.

There must be a whole raft of New Order rarities somewhere or tracks that have never appeared on CD (MTO, the Happy One, Perfect Pit etc). But what do we get? The same old tracks again, again and again.

New Order have always seemed to get this thing wrong (see Retro), whilst Depeche Mode usually give their fans exactly what they want.

I used to think this was a Mute vs Factory thing, but Mute have been sitting on a Nitzer Ebb best of for years now just for the hell of it.

What's wrong with these record companies!!!!!!!
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Postby 808state's Tartan Army » 31 Aug 2005 20:35

I don't see the point of another New Order compilation either.

As for the Orbital comps:

"Work" was ok but, to be honest, I don't listen to it much. I would rather play Middle Of Nowhere" or "Insides". (Out There Somewhere is great IMO).

The new release seems utterly pointless and I won't be buying it either. They would have been better releasing a live album.

Although I won't bother buying Battleship Potemkin, I wait in anticipation for Pet Shop Boys new album which is due out in April '06. I believe they have about half of the tracks for it already. I bought "PopArt" on DVD and it is a good compilation with every single and 3 12" videos. My only gripe is that it does not contain Absolutely Fabulous (released on a different label), Miracles or Flamboyant - even though the latter two are on the 3x CD release of PopArt (which was released at the same time).
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Postby dee3 » 31 Aug 2005 22:51

I was at work, when I wrote 'n' sent my last posting!
(Naughty-naughty me!)

But for whatever reason, I couldn't see what the new Orbital-comp's cover looked liked in Nick's posting at that time.

But now I can see it, and - hrmmm, you're right, Nick -
damn(!!!), what a terminally crappy cover! :-?

Now I know what the "graphically challenged" cover-artists do,
if and when, they're in some kind of job re-training program!:wink:

BTW, and on a, errrr, "fun"-note sorta inspired by Strunz,
why don't we all log on to the NOOL-forum instead,
and each of us can just copy and paste our postings from here to there?

Y'know, just for kicks and for raising some hell! :P
(Hey, we could even use aliases - I got first dibs on "Bernard S.") :D

I'll betcha that the NO-consignetti there would already be up at arms,
if they saw the few postings that are already here in this topic! 8)
So keep 'em rollin'!

Well, 'later and thanx for now, gentlemen!

Don
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nyew owder?

Postby newbuild » 01 Sep 2005 02:27

i wish that there would be a reissue of the factus8 1981-1982 five track cd ep...or at least a comp including the 1982 12" version of temptation...the one on substance is good-but i need the original! anyone know if it is available elsewhere besides on the pricey 15 year old canadian cd?
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Re: nyew owder?

Postby nickking » 01 Sep 2005 02:32

newbuild wrote:i wish that there would be a reissue of the factus8 1981-1982 five track cd ep...or at least a comp including the 1982 12" version of temptation...the one on substance is good-but i need the original! anyone know if it is available elsewhere besides on the pricey 15 year old canadian cd?


The only other place that I can think of it being on is the first disc of the Retro box set (track 2 of CD 1 if memory serves me correctly).

HTH,

Nick ;)
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Postby Mark » 01 Sep 2005 21:18

Again, not a huge fan of the Pet Shop Boys, but you have to acknowledge their influence, I bought the 3 CD version of PopArt and its rather good as a 'greatest hits' for the occasional listener. I've also got the Depeche Mode 86-98 CD which has some great stuff if you're not an avid collector. It seems that it is worth releasing these best of's as I seem to buy most of them!!! I tend to stick mainly to Dance, but these offshoots that are influences are worth buying for the odd listen, to see how they influenced the Dance scene and, in turn how it influenced them back.

Not impressed with that Orbital comp, what a naff selection of tracks and an even worse cover. Can't understand a Leftfield greatest hits? They have only released a couple of albums, just get Leftism and Rhythm and stealth and you've surely already got it? At least the Prodigy have the bonus disc included on their effort.

It does seem to be a bit of a greatest hits year for a lot of bands, which surely is a bit of a cash in for those still on the go, as I can't understand a greatest hits when you should hopefully still have more to come. I can allow 808:88:98 as it was a ten year celebration, and not labelled a greatest hits, but Faithless and The Prodigy surely still have more to produce? Or does this spell the beginning of the end, and a 'we'll cash in whilst we still have some fans' mentality?
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